tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17874090.post113828736642562702..comments2024-01-12T05:40:00.544-05:00Comments on Positive Anymore: Why We Don't Say Chicago The Way We Think We DoBenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02733601180382760718noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17874090.post-1138377260054737712006-01-27T10:54:00.000-05:002006-01-27T10:54:00.000-05:00Lots of interesting stuff. First off, Chocolate La...Lots of interesting stuff. First off, Chocolate Lady, I think you're absolutely right that SNL Chicagoese is like stage Central Yiddish. I've heard, in fact, this stage dialect called "Paylish," another exaggerated misapplication of Central Yiddish vowels. As for "oy vey," I've always wondered why this isn't "ou vay" in Central Yiddish, given the protovowels. I've never heard "ou vay," though, and I have heard "oy vay" plenty. <BR/><BR/>Incidentally, as I'm typing this, I'm listening to Brian Lehrer on WNYC (a local NPR affiliate), and I noticed that one of the callers just now was clearly a young Yiddish speaker. Then I realized he was one of my Central Yiddish 'informants,' and was in fact the groom at a wedding that both the Chocolate Lady and me were guests at.<BR/><BR/>But yes, Queenie, I agree that you were disagreeing with me, and moreover you are right to do so - I trust you about a hundred times more than I trust myself on this subject, not only because you study it and I don't, but your claims are based in data, and mine aren't. It's pretty interesting that even though both of us don't merge cot and caught, our cots and caughts don't shake down the same way; I'm sure that I have cot in watch and caught in Chicago and sausage. As my grandfather would have said, how 'bout that?<BR/><BR/>As for hot dog, I do have different vowels in the individual words, but I could imagine myself saying "hot dog" with two "cots." Weird.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02733601180382760718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17874090.post-1138341874673345832006-01-27T01:04:00.000-05:002006-01-27T01:04:00.000-05:00Queenie,You are agreeing with Ben. "Sausage" is p...Queenie,<BR/><BR/>You are agreeing with Ben. "Sausage" is pronounced in your trachia of the woods or whatever it is with the "cot" vowel, but not with the "cat" vowel as in the show.<BR/><BR/>Ben,<BR/>I think it is possible that in the TV show you describe, the mis-pronunciation of sausage was not a mistake but a deliberate hyper-correction for the sake of making it funnier. I am thinking of many Yiddish satirical songs in which Eastern or Central Yiddish dialects are exaggerated for comic effect. For instance in "a khazndl in amerike," the "Galitsiyaner" pronounces "oy vey" as "ay vay." It is true that the Central Yiddish speaker would pronounce the "vey" part as "vay." He would not pronounce "oy" as "ay" and Lebedeff knew this as well as anyone, but since NEY has oy->ey and CY has ey->ay, line them all up and get "ay vay"<BR/>similarly caught -> cot plus cot-> cat equals caught->cat and Sausage -> sassagethe chocolate doctor מרת שאקאלאדhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17844956689807749316noreply@blogger.com